Canadian Glass

[g lass & g lad]

In about 1880 Canadian Pacific needed insulators , as was put in the above post , the Can Pac 090 Band type were made from old Montreal molds. ( Montreal being taken over by the Great North Western )
By 1882 the Canadian pacific was expanding it's telegraph rapidly.
About 1883 the 1B Thin Skirt was put into production.
About 1882 the " whittle mold " No Embossing CD 143's were started.
What do these 2 molds groups have to do with each other?
Why is the 1A Thin Print involved in this post ?

In 1885 there was a great fire at the North American Glass Co. in Montreal (only a single pot furnace was left. ) Before the fire there were 4 .
The 1B Thin Skirt group are quite scarce, I have 3 different embossings .
Yet in one of these I have only 1 example.
So by Mark Lauckner's #'s they are , 1B-1A , 1B-1B , 1B-1C. It is the 1B-1C
That Mark doesn't list the one , that I have only 1 of.
In the 1B-1A I find some have an offset between the front and back half of the mold.
Yet the embossing is still fresh the mold , clean. WHY ?
FIRE , the mold warped at the hinge. It is not a worn hinge ,from time , as the mold was still new .
These molds 1B-1A & 1B-1A continued to be used embossed till about 1887
They then went on to become the No Embossing version of the mold.
I feel the 1B-1C was lost in the fire.
Before 1880 only 2 presses were used at this Glass House. After 1880 there are as far as I know 3 molds in each set.

The "whittle Mold " group. There are 3 molds in this group.
Why the rough crackle look ? The mold deteriorated , getting worse over time
The Reason FIRE . These 3 molds , I would suggest went though the fire .
Getting hot enough to change the structure of the mold , by not being cooled in the way that cast should .
Over time these molds showed signs of deterioration.

Mold #1 is the one with the small raised dot on the skirt.,about 1 inch in from the mold line.It has a flatish top of the dome. It over time becomes very whittled looking.
Mold #2 is the one that over time develops round circles on each dome face
It never gets as bad as the #1 mold.
Mold #3 Never gets very bad , it at worse developes a orange peel look .
Yet we can distinguish it from mold #2 because very early in it's life it gets a repair in the wire grooves, Mold #2 never gets this repair even at it's late stages.

I feel this group was made till 1890 when the Diamond Glass ( formerly Excelsior Glass Co then North American glass Co ) took over Hamilton Glass Co . who owned the Burlington Glass Co .
These "Whittle" 3 molds were replaced by the Round Base items Made at the Burlington Glass Plant of the Diamond Glass Co

All right , but how do we get the 1A group of 2 molds ( Marks book only lists 1 but see post above on the 1A group)
After the fire 1885 there was a sudden need for Canadian Pacific Molds.
With the loss of mold 1B-1C , the former Montreal that became the No embossing Montreal , were turned into the 1A pair of molds. See above post.

The Pic's from the left.Pic #1is , 1B- 1A + 1B-1B + 1B-1C ,,
pic #2 is 1B-1A , before fire and after fire , notice the offset of the mold halves at the dome .

Pic #3 is 1B-1A after fire , with embossing and 1B-1A No Embossing after it is no longer a Can Pac.

The pic #4 is of the No Embossing 1B-1A and it after repair that was done to realign the mold halves , There is a bevel that goes out on both sides of the mold at the dome about 1/4 inch on each side . This corrects the offset.

"Whittle Group " Pic's #5 #6 & #7 are of the #1 #2 & #3 molds of the group with their early and late stages of production.
The last pic shows (circled ) the mold repair on one of the sides.

NOTE While this post on the fire reason can not proved . It is based on years of thought and research , it came to conclusion recently, due to a strong discussion that raised many points . This putting forward of points of view makes ones mind go where it hasn't been . So thanks to those involved.
Pete

[g lass & g lad]

INSULATOR MOULDS

First a note on the Dominion Insulator Catalogue.
The one circulating in the US and now Canada has been altered by an American , cross referencing the numbers (to US production) by writing on it.
Secondly , the above PDF copy , and the pages that I photographed at the Archives , were not in any order as they are photo copies.

Because of this , one can not see the context of the supplement , and the order it comes in . Nor can one see if this catalogue was printed as a whole .

Was the supplement added to the previously printed catalogue and the whole thing reprinted by the Ronalds Press and advertising agency.
The reasons for these questions become clear as this post goes forward.
The original must be looked at , and I am working toward that , at this time.

It has taken me 2 1/2 months to get permission to view and copy , the restricted records of the Dominion Glass . Emails , phone calls , it went on and on . ( you can't believe the papers I had to read and sign to not publish some info and credit the Archives on other info ).

Research is slow , a day in the life of , is . Leave home , drive 1 1/4 hours , park in a 1 hour parking spot , walk 1 1/2 blocks to the archives.
Veiw the finding aid folder , request what ever it is that I can find that day to hope to solve a question that needs an answer.
Then wait 60 - 90 minutes for it to be taken to the viewing room . Then a couple of hours searching , often not finding what I want.
By now I'm 3 hours over my parking limit . Last trip I got to my car as the by-law officers were pulling up to it and began writing . I looked , they grinned , I left.
Now it's around 4 o'clock Lara and I are hungry , 2 club sandwiches , drive home 1 1/4 hours ,and we're at $15 for gas & $25 for the meals . $40 and 5-6 hours and I hope I found something.

1926 MOULD LIST
The first of the restricted files I asked to see was the 1926 mould list . I had expected it to be of about 10,000 moulds , it was about half that.
A booklet by Parks Canada implied that the original ledger was of moulds going back to the early days of each glass house.
Archives does not have the original for viewing , just copies of the pages . I will have to try to access the original. If I can find it.

What I did view , was current moulds , in use in 1926 . This , it must be remembered , is before the " Dominion " was added to the insulators , with the number 9 , 10 , 16 , 42 , or 614 .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

NOTE
THIS IS BEING ADDED ON JULY 16th 2010.
In further research I have come to the conclusion that these moulds were all from the Hamilton Plant of the Dominion Glass Co.
This is shown by the Parks Canada book on this subject that finds the BOTTLE moulds in this inventory , do not include any of the Montreal moulds.
From this I conclude that Hamilton was the main or only insulator production in 1926.
From there we know production went to Wallaceburg in 1927.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Now what I found , I have cross referenced these with the Dominion Catalogue.
I also , using T B Kings book , have added the method the insulators were made , from a short form , say LO becomes the Lynch O .
And the term Ins.M , I am sure is a Lynch Insulator Machine . Press , ect are explained

Mould # 333.. Listed as ," Bell Telephone Insulators " . This can be crossed with the Dominion Catalogue , Stock # 333 Standard Toll Insulator. ... It is a CD 122 ..... 12 moulds are listed ...made on the LO

Mould # 334 .. Listed as a ," Pony " , ... In the Dominion Cat. , Stock # 334 , Special Drip Pony ,...It is a CD 106 ...12 moulds listed , made on LO

Mould # 340 .. Listed as ," Heavy Telegraph Double Petticoat " ,... In the Dominion Cat. , listed as same ....It is a CD 145 ...27 moulds listed ,... made on LO
These would include embossed as well as plain.

Mould # 343 .. Listed as New West Union, ...In the Dominion Cat . ,# 613 New Western Union Standard Heavy Telegraph Double Petticoat Insulator , ... It is a CD 152 , ... 12 moulds listed , ... made on the , Ins M .
These would be <>'s

Mould # 344 .. Listed as Extra DG ( deep groove) DP ( double petticoat) , ... In the Dominion Cat. #614 Extra Deep Groove , Double Petticoat ,... It is a CD 164 , ... 12 moulds listed , ... made on the Ins M .
These would be <>'s

Mould # 345 .. Listed as # 1671 Std Tel , ... In the Dominion Cat. ,#1671 Standard Telegraph Insulator , ... It is a CD 143 , ... 6 moulds listed ,... it is made on a Hand Press .

Mould # 346 .. Listed as a # 1678 , Extra DG , DP , ... In the Dominion Cat. # 1678 Extra Deep Groove Double Petticoat ,... It is a CD 162.4 ,... 11 moulds listed , ... it is made on a Hand Press .

Mould # 347 .. Listed as a St Bell Telephone , ... In the Dominion Cat. Standard Telephone Insulator ,...It is a CD 121
... 14 moulds listed , ... made on the Ins M .
These would be BTC etc embossed

Mould # 348 .. Listed as a St Insulators Plain , ... These would be the same as #347 but not marked for Bell . ( <>'s and no emb., ... 10 moulds , ... Ins M .

Mould # 349 .. Listed as CNR , these are CD 143 , there are 3 moulds , used on a Hand Press.
These could be the Prism Periods

Mould # 350 .. Listed as CNR , these are CD 143 , there are 6 moulds , used on a hand press.


Mould # 351 .. Listed as CPR , these are CD 143 , there are 6 moulds , used on a Hand Press.

Mould # 352 .. Listed as Transposition , ... In the Dominion Cat. , Two Piece Transposition , ... CD 190 - 191 ,.. 12 moulds listed ( likely 6 of each , top & bottom) , ... made on a Hand Press .
2 <>'s on botton piece

Mould # 353 & 353 -A Listed as Exchange Line , ...In the Dominion Cat . , Double Groove Pony Insulator , ... They are CD 115's I do not understand the 353 & 353-A , there is a 1 listed on top of a 15 , so 1 for 353 and 15 for 353-A . As they are made on the , Ins M . I doubt the 1 mould stands for the CD 115.1 ,but ??
Note
Lee S put forward that it might be that the odd mould is a CD 113 with dots. After a quick study of Hemingray and that mould , it is very possible that this was the odd 1 only mould.

Mould # 354 .. Listed as " New " Pony , ... Not in the Dominion Cat . , ... These would be the Modern CD 102 <> index 165 in the Guide . , ... There are 45 moulds for the , Ins. M , and 11 for the O'Neil . (Still taking thoughts on this one. )

Mould # 355 .. Listed as Pony DG , or Deep Groove , CD 108 ? , ... There are 8 moulds , made on the , Ins M .

Mould # 356 .. Listed as # 2 Cable , ... In the Dominion Cat. , No 2 Cable Insulator , ... It is a CD 252 , ... 10 moulds listed , ... made on the Ins M .

Mould # 365 .. Listed as Canadian National , ... Listed in the Dominion Catalogue as , Stock No 365 , New Heavy Telegraph ( C N T Style ) , ... They are CD 154 , ... There are 14 moulds for the Press ( this would be the Miller Rotary Press ) ..there were 30 for the , Ins M , .. And 12 for the , Semi Auto .

Here we notice that in Mould # 343 in the mould design , was Designated as , New Western Union .

In Mould # 365 however we find the mould design is designated as , Canadian National.

All of these are before the 1927 DOMINION 42 designation.

I am still of the firm belief , that the CD 154 was a Candadian modification of the CD 152 .


Mould # 366 .. Listed only as Type A , ... 2 moulds . on the SLP ( Side Lever Press )

NOTE ...I believe these to be the CNR blots listed under CD 154 <> index 030 or 045 threaded inner skirt .
As we notice there is a gap of mold numbers between the #356 and the #365 , this shows a time gap.
And as the #366 and then the #369 is later yet , they are likely a modified #365 mould .

Mould # 369 .. Listed as Type B , ... 2 moulds , on the SLP , . See NOTE above.

Any new info I find will be edited into this post as time goes on .
If there is any info that you have that can add to , or correct this list , please feel free to let me know . Credit is always given to help put forward.
Lee S mailed me on my first take on mould 355, he mentioned deep groove didn't fit my CD . I rethought it and corrected a few items on Oct.1st. Thanks Lee , two minds are better than one.
As I am working on several complex research themes at this time , it may not come too quick , but things pop up often , as I work on other topics. Pete

[Jack Barna]

I can see that you put alot of time and effort into this, nice job. What I find interesting is that there is no CD112.4's unless they are under the DG pony 353-353A series or are they later than 1926.
Jack

[Rod Bushfield]

It's way over my head but at least its being recorded somewhere.

[Alex]

Thats some investigative work you are into.

Alex.

[g lass & g lad]

Today I added a NOTE in post #17 . It adds to the understanding of the material. P